Record claim submission form
Comments about this discussion:
Started
I think it would be practical to offer an official form on which world records have to be entered. Then a proper documentation of the records and the circumstances under which they were achieved would be possible.
At the moment I am creating such a document for the german records. Up to now it is for the track disciplines only, but when I hav have finished the document I can translate it in english and can make some additions to cover all disciplines mentioned in the IUF world record guideines.
Comment
There is already some kind of model for the cover letter that must be sent together with all the documents in order to ask for approval of a world record. At the moment it is not accessible on the website, so I agree with Jan, that it would make things a lot easier, especially for people who have never made a documentation of a record before.
If it is generally accepted that a documentation model should be provided, I am happy to create a model document, which we can provide on the IUF website for download or also to help you, Jan, to get some ideas of what is needed!
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I agree that we should use a standandised form that people can use to claim a world record. And I also agree that it should be publicly available from our website. Both would increase the transparancy with which we work, which is a good thing.
I think I have seen the 'some kind of model for the cover letter' that Mirjam mentions, because I was involved in verifying some record claims over the last year. Actually I wondered where these people got the form from!
It would be good if we can make the 'some kind of model' available between ourselves for discussion. It's interesting that Jan is developing something similar for German records. Perhaps Jan wants to share with us what he currently has? Then we can discuss our form and maybe improve it before making it available to anyone.
I'm not sure, however, how we can share documents between us. I don't think we can attach documents to our posts somehow.
One possible way is to put a document online in some suitable non-public spot, and then share a link here. It should be a place where it stays permanently (until deleted), not like a WeTransfer download link that expires in a week.
I for one have server room where I could put documents that are only visible if one has the link, and then share the link here in this forum.
If anyone wants to use this, email your document to me. I think everyone has my email address from when this committee started.
Comment
Klaas, they all got that form from me because they knew I used it to document my own records. Furthermore I was present during most of the records in track which were beaten in the last two years and people knew I was in that committee and asked me to send them the model letter. I got it originally from Ken when he used it to send his 1hour record to the Guiness Book.
I can send that letter to you Klaas because I don't know what platform to use so then you can maybe post the link afterwards?
Comment
Sure Mirjam, you can send it to me and I will put a link here.
So was it originally a form from Guinness?
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I'm not sure, I guess if it was a model from Guiness, I think it was developed by Ken.
Ken?
I'll send it to you!
Comment
Here is an example of the current cover letter that Mirjam mentioned:
https://klaasbil.home.xs4all.nl/cover-letter_world-record-vorlage.docx
Comment
I'll see if I can format that as a link ( I though it would automatically be a link):
https://klaasbil.home.xs4all.nl/cover-letter_world-record-vorlage.docx
Comment
I personally prefer forms than the cover letter formats. I feel these leave the potential for accidently missing of important sections or information.
eg:
Name of record:
Gender:
Details of current record,Name: Date: Location:
Your name:
Your contact detail:
Date of claimed record:
Location of claimed record:
Description of location and event:
etc.
When I was on this committee previously I brought up the issue of the requirement to have "2 independent national unicycle representatives" to verify a record. This is ok if you are in a country where there is a national unicycling organisation... not every country does (the UK does not) and this statement does not give any leeway. When this was discussed previously the solution from my understanding was that it was statement of 2 independent national unicycling representatives or IUF accredited unicycle representatives.
Comment
I agree that the required information is best provided though a form. It could either be (1) a digital form that handles the input automatically, or (2) a form that someone downloads, completes digitally and then submits through e-mail.
Option (2) resembles more how we work now. And given the fact that the information must be distrbuted and verified by several individuals, this option (2) is probably the most practical.
The requirements for a record claim are partly reproduced in Mirjam's example document. But I feel that requirements for world records are a different subject altogether. Indeed, we may want to make changes there. Once those are agreed, they should obviously be reflected in the form.
Comment
The document I sent to you Klaas was only the cover letter. There is also a model for witness signatures but as I mentioned before, it'd be ok for me to order everything and create one document which can be used for all records.
This however takes some time and I could do that next weekend and then send everything to you so you can upload the link again. (But I'll only do it if it is generally accepted by everybody participating in this discussion)
Comment
I'm pretty sure not all of us have a clear and complete overview of what documents are currently used. It would be very useful if Mirjam can make a complete set available as an example and send it to me, I can make it available online for all of us.
Then we can discuss if and how we can improve on the current practice, maybe by combining several things into a single document or whatever.
Comment
Since I find forms very clear and think that they simplify the procedures both for the athlete, and for the association, which is to recognize the records, I just design such a draft for the German records.
Unfortunately, the draft is only available in German so far and is only intended for the Track section!
However, I am happy to translate it and add it so that it can be used for all disciplines listed in the IUF World Record Guidelines, if desired.
The design can be found at the following link: https://mega.nz/#!1g4gGabK!WjfzIOnaKN411VrA6bomLDAx2FpT_DPunaB4FQnyV04
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I think Jan‘s document is a very good basis. If we add everything we require for a record to be apporved I guess we have a good model we can provide. As I said, I‘ll work on it this weekend. (And maybe „steal“ some ideas from Jan):-)
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I also think a form is the way of doing it. It must set the minimum information required, and also leave some space (or allow adding extra pages) for explaining more into details some procedure or for adding drawings if the person wants.
With Mirjam's help I recently documented the measure of the french cup 10k (no record beaten! rain, wind, turns ... ^^) using the IAAF form which I think can be almost taken as it is now for distance races. There's a page where the whole measurment procedure must be described by hand. This page looks boring at first but provides a good way of checking that everything has been done correctly and logically.
Comment
Mirjam sent me another version of the World Records documentation model, which includes not only the cover letter but also the witness and national unicyclng representative (organiser) data, and a list of additionally required information.
I've put it here so all of us can see it:
https://klaasbil.home.xs4all.nl/world-records-documentation.docx
Comment
For the base data for submission I suggest that a Google Form is created. They are very easy to create (and modify). They are secure and create a spreadsheet of the answers that can be shared out. Super simple. They can also be embodied on a single or multiple webpages.
Comment
A Google Form sounds good, but I think we schould also have a paper form.
A paper form has the advantage that you can easily capture the signatures of the witnesses at the competition and the whole procedure is always the same and clear.
Comment
If we maintain the requirement that each witness must sign his/her statement, then how would we use of a Google form?
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Sorry all, I'm late to the discussion because it went into my 'rulebook' inbox and I didn't realise it was going on.
Yes, I developed a cover letter for submissions which I sent to Mirjam, but I agree that a standardised form is better for the actual information.
The idea with a cover letter is just that, it is an introduction. It should be followed by the required information (in a standardised format) for the world record.
I like Martin's comment about having extra space to document additional information. One of the ideas I wanted to work with for the previous committee is to have 'interesting notes' attached to each record attempt which not required for the actual documentation.
This could include:
- rider information (about themselves, motivations etc) other than the required DOB/Gender/Nationality
- set up of the unicycle (specifications beyond the required documentation info)
- newsmedia articles about the record attempt
- weather and other challenges
etc
Comment
I think the idea of the cover letter as an introduction is a nice one. And also regarding the extra space for additional information for information that is not necessary but maybe simply interesting, is something I like.
All in all I think that all required information should be provided in a standardized form and that additional information can be added in a more free form.
Comment
I like the idea of recording additional (non-required) information.
We could include input fields for a few categories such as the ones that Ken mentions (stating that an answer in these categories is optional), and also include a free-format entry field for any other information that someone may want to supply.
However, I don't think we need a separate cover letter for this. I think the process will be more streamlined and clear if there is only a single form to be completed.
Comment
About recognition of 100km records:
We have (in another discussion) strongly argued that there should be a connection between IUF Rulebook and WR Guidelines.
As it stands, 100km is recognised by the IUF Rulebook (even though Ken wants to remove it).
I think this implies that 100km records should be allowed.
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Sorry, my last comment was in the wrong discussion, please disregard. I'll copy it where it belongs.
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I think practically everyone has opted for creating a form on which all the required information can be entered and where there is room for additional not required information.
We should also include a paragraph in the WRG stating that record claims must be submitted on the official form and that this can be downloaded from the IUF homepage (possibly with a link?).
Also the federations of the individual countries could be informed about the new form at the end of the WRG update and at the same time the WRG could be spread again and "advertised" for it.
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I agree with the previous post.
Do we have clarity on what exactly must be (and must not be) on the form? Or shall we try to list it here? Something for you Jan?
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I think the form should be developed and then a proposal should be created linking to it so that the committee can vote on the topic.
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I'll make a list later, with things that I think should be covered by the form. Then we can discuss and complete the list here and afterwards create the form.
Comment
Below is a list of information that could be requested in the form:
1. Details of the event and the record:
- Event
- Competition venue/location
- Discipin
- Achieved Performance
- Time at which the performance was achieved (date, time)
2. personal details (in case of relays all persons, ideally indicated in the starting order)
- Name, First Name
- Country
- Club
(- Date of birth*)
(- Contact - preferred: e-mail address, otherwise telephone number*)
3. Information on the technical equipment used (if necessary for the record category)
- Timing system (possibly including the last test date)
- False Start Monitoring System
4. Confirmation of the official judges
- Name, First Name and Signature 1. referee/ starter
- Name, First Name and Signature 2. Referee/ Timekeeper
- Name, First Name and Signature Referee
(- In each case the contact - preferred: e-mail address, otherwise telephone number*)
(5. Confirmation of the official competition management
- Name, First Name and Signature of the Competition Management
- Place and Date
(- Contact - preferred: e-mail address, otherwise telephone number*)
)
6. Results of the competition - performances of the three best placed participants (for records in official competitions)
7. Attachments
- Call for competition/Program
- Complete list of results
- Finish image and possibly the zero check** (if applicable for the record category)
- Measurement protocol/ IAAF certificate (copy) (if applicable for record category)
* Which data we can and want to store here, I think we have to consider carefully for reasons of data protection.
** As already mentioned in another discussion, a so-called zero check must be carried out in athletics to prove that the delay between the start signal for the athletes and the triggering of the time measurement system is less than 0.001 seconds. In the discipines, where finish image systems are used (track races) and there is therefore a finish image, systems are used which are also used in athetics.
Therefore, such a proof would also be possible here.
The exact wording would have to be chosen so that the form can be used for all disciplines and for record attempts within as well as outside official competitions.
I think there are still some things that can be added and improved.
Comment
I think it's a important question if we want to use ONE version of the form for all events. I think that there should probably be a separate version of the form for multi-person records (relays) to keep the other one simpler, and if we are opening up the possibility for multiple forms then maybe time trials would have a different form than competition-like events.
Comment
Of course, a form for all disciplines would not be that easy to create, but the user would not have to make sure that he uses the right form because there is only one. If there are several forms, each one can be adapted more specifically to the discipin and may therefore be easier to fill out. I think both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages. For which procedure one decides in the end is probably a matter of taste.
With several forms personally I wouldn't create an own one for the relay, because the requirements for relay records are identical to the other track races with the exception of the persons involved. A separate form for road races or time trials on the other hand could be useful due to the other setup/requirements.
Comment
I personally think one form is enough. It is easier to handle and riders don't have to think about which form is the correct one. Maybe some points are more detailed in road races (e.g. measuring) whereas other point (such as false start monitoring) may be more detailed for a track record.
I guess if the form is good it should be no problem to use it for different disciplines.
And by the way: I think your suggestion is very good Jan. In my opinion we should try to keep it as short as possible and still include everything. And that's what I like about it. The question is: do we need point 5 if we have official judges and timekeepers? Maybe the management of the competition wasn't even present during the attempt - how should it be confirmed by them?
Comment
In some countries or cultures "Name" is understood as full name. I suggest to change into "Family name, given name" or perhaps "Last name, first name".
Why would you have "preferred: e-mail address, otherwise telephone number"? I think we may assume that these days, everyone has an e-mail address? So we can ask for just that. I acknowledge that in developing countries this may not always be the case, but then they might not have a telephone number either.
As I wrote already in another discussion: who is the timekeeper? Often, timekeeping is a system consisting of light beams or other sensors, a camera, a computer etc, and usually operated by several persons at the same time.
I don't think it is a problem if we have separate forms for some disciplines, as long as this is for clearly defined categories such as Track Race, Road Race or Time Trial. The top of the form should state something like "IUF World Record Claim Submission Form for Track Racing" (example). If having separate forms makes them easier to complete, it would be a good thing. For relay records, we can use the same form as for single-person records - it would have four places for personal data, and for non-relay records you use just one.
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Forget my comment about time keeper for now. I missed the responses in the other discussion #22 Adherence to documentation criteria.
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I agree with you about the "Name" - "Family name and given name" are the better term.
"preferred: e-mail address, otherwise telephone number" rather meant that I personally would prefer to ask for the email address - if we want to get this data at all - but if the rest prefers a phone number, that's okay for me too.
I am also unsure about point 5, which is why I have put it in brackets. Perhaps competition management is also the wrong term, maybe competition committee or sports director are better. In Germany we normay have a competition committee at german championships which is the sports director of the entire competition, at other competitios there is one person who is the sports director of the entire competition. The person is responsible for the whole competition and I had thought about demanding them as witnesses, among other things to have a contact person in case of questions, who has an overview of the whole competition and therefore can give information e.g. about the start system or the timing system or at least knows exactly who is responsible, which is not necessarily the case with the judges.
But I think, if we have a call for competition or a program of the competition, we can also find a contact person there. A little more work because you might have to look for it first, but certainly possible.
Comment
I think we should have a way to contact both the rider(s) and the officials/witnesses. It would be my preference to request an e-mail address. If we would need to talk to someone (as opposed to emailing them) we can as yet ask for a phone number.
Maybe we don't need your point 5. A record claimant may not have this information easily available. And as you say, we can probably find out ourselves how to contact them. In case we cannot find them, and we have some doubts and want to discuss it with the competition manager (or similar), we can ask the claimant as yet for this name and contact info.
Comment
I think that most of the factual information is covered in Jan's list, but what it does not allow for is any of the extra information that may be useful/interesting for historical record. For instance; it is often noted about the weather on the day of the record, or the number of spectators, or the other competitors in the race, previous attempts etc.
Could we add an "additional information" field that is not mandatory.
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I agree to adding an input field with a title/subject like
Additional remarks or information such as weather, number of spectators, race competitors, previous attempts etc (not required)
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Oh yes of course, I forgot that part in my list but we should definitely include it.
Comment
The WR Guidelines, section 2.1, require that for witnesses, two options out of four are satisfied. This makes it harder to create a form that can be used in general. In case of Time trials, section 5.1.2 requires at least two officials for timing, which may or may not add to the requirements in 2.1. This makes dreating a general form more difficult, but probably not impossible.
If at all possible, I think it would be best to have one form for all World Record claims.
Comment
I think the current way with the two out of four options is not really the best option for the vast majority of world records (see discussion 22 "Adherence to Documentation Criteria").
For all world records that are set at competitions (or that are basically competitive disciplines), there are, as discussed in the other discussion, more suitable ways to prove the record. And I think this can be placed in a single form.
In my opinion, only the time trials are a bit out of the normal scheme and we would have to figure out how to get all the information we need into the form.
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A question that hasn't been addressed yet: if we go for digital forms that are filled in and stored digitally, how to we deal with signatures?
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With regard to signatures, digital forms are certainly not as simple as paper forms. I personally prefer to have a paper form at hand, because you can fill it out anywhere and don't need a PC or anything else. However, as far as transmission and storage are concerned, I prefer a digitalised version. But of course I admit that if the transmission and archiving is done digitally anyway, it would be illogical to only provide a form to print out.
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Does it need to be a signature or can contact details be enough?
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I would like to require signatures (in addition to contact details). This gives us more certainty that the statements are real. In most jurisdictions, forging a signature is a rather serious crime, and thus requiring signatures gives more credibility to the documentation we receive as proof of a record.
If we do away with the cover letter as a separate document like we discussed above, then I think the form that we intend to develop should start with a section where the rider can state that he/she has performed such-and-such and requests that this achievement is acknowledged as an IUF World Record. In other words: not only the witnesses have to make statements, but also the record 'claimant' him/herself. Including a signature.
Maybe we should postpone developing a more detailed form until there are no pending issues anymore (in other discussions and proposals), so that we know exactly what information/documentation is required for which situations/disciplines/records.
As to signing 'versus' digital: what is often done in official transactions (such as opening a bank account) is that a form is digitally available on a website. You can either fill it in digitally and then print it, or print it and fill in by handwriting. Either way, you then place a signature on the paper form, scan it and submit through email. We could use a similar process to be able to archive all documentation digitally, and still have the required signatures.
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I agree with Klaas in all points and consider his suggestions to be a reasonable approach.
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I agree with Klaas also. It's easy enough to scan a signed letter and archive it digitally. I think it's important to have either a cover letter or a statement from the claimant requesting that we acknowledge the record.
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Good point Ken. The request to us/IUF to acknowledge the record can simply be part of the record claim form, somewhere near the top. I think this is better than a separate cover letter. I would like to collect (as much as possible) everything in a single document, this mitigates any problems to keep everything together and complete.