Finalizing structure of chapter 6 (Time Trial Records)
This discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.Comments about this discussion:
Started
Comment
Now that we have approved the general documentation criteria and those for the individual disciplines, we should do the fine-tuning on the rest of the individual discipline chapters. This concerns the general section and the section on the individual categories.
Since all time trail records are only listed as unlimited records, I have moved the corresponding information to section 6.1, which keeps the list of record categories cleaner.
I have moved the aspects "stationary start" and "no drafting" to the documentation criteria, as this is about documenting a certain behavior of the rider.
Comment
2. Only records on unlimited unicycles will be recognized; there will be no further subdivision into wheel classes.
Wait, why? Are we waiting on the rulebook proposal to add a standard category in the time-trial? Note that there is no stated wheel class in the rulebook for the time-trial. Neither standard nor unlimited records are required.
Comment
I know there is time pressure, but 6.1.2 is a significant addition to the world record guidelines, and there is a 3 days discussion period on this.
It doesn't actually need to be stated as will be regulated by the rulebook.
Comment
> I know there is time pressure, but 6.1.2 is a significant addition to the world record guidelines, and there is a 3 days discussion period on this.
I don't know what you mean? On the one hand, this proposal has been under discussion for several months, and on the other hand, paragraph 2 of 6.1 in particular only covers what is already in the Word Record Guidelines, so there is no change compared to the current situation.
Any changes resulting from the new rulebook can still be implemented afterwards and have not been part of this proposal and discussion.
Comment
It was on hold while we dealt with it in the rulebook committee
Paragraph 2 is prescriptive. It says that only unlimited records will be recognised.
The original 2011 IUF guideline was set up so we could add more world records in future (section 1.6), with standard records being top of the list.
We had to get the guidelines up and running, rather than perfect, because a lot of people were posting claims on the internet with minimal documentation.
As a result, many of our records were included ad hoc. The Hour, 24hr and 100mile records had a history of being contested, but the 100km was added because we felt that a metric distance was required (it was uncontested at the time). We did not have a marathon standard (added later) because there was no standard class in the marathon until Unicon 15 or 16.
Records need standardisation, and standard class gives a more uniform comparison between different generations.
Comment
> It was on hold while we dealt with it in the rulebook committee
It was not my intention to wait here until the new rulebook is official, but unfortunately I have not been able to incorporate the changes suggested by Klaas in the other discussion into all proposals in recent months. I am really sorry about that; I actually wanted to put the proposals to a vote months ago.
As I said, this is about finalizing the structure of the rules based on what the current guidelines already contain and what we have discussed here. It is not (yet) about incorporating changes resulting from the new IUF rules.
> It says that only unlimited records will be recognised.
Yes, and in terms of content, it corresponds exactly to the current WRG, which currently also provides for unlimited records.
Once again: this proposal is about finalizing the structure of the section. This does not mean that no new records can be added in the future, nor that we will not have to adjust the content of the rules again if necessary due to the new IUF rulebook.
Comment
Ken, by "rulebook" do you mean the IUF Competition Rulebook? That doesn't regulate Time Trials, probably for the reason that they are not organised as a competition where contestants ride against each other.
The 2011 WRG deal with Time Trials in Chapter 5 (not 6). They do explicitly state in 5.2.1 u/i 5.2.5 that unlimited unicycles are used for Time Trials. So the now proposed text "Only records on unlimited unicycles will be recognized; there will be no further subdivision into wheel classes" is hardly a deviation from the current rules.
However, one could argue that the second part of the proposed sentence rules out that other wheel classes will also not be admitted in the future. But one never knows what we want in the future. This could be remedied either by omitting everything after the semicolon, or by changing it to "there is no further subdivision into wheel classes".
Comment
I made proposal 30- adding standard records to time-trial several months ago, but this was never approved as a voting proposal.
Only the discussion was approved. It was on the understanding that we had to wait until time-trial was an official IUF rulebook competition so the two would link up.
"The 2011 WRG deal with Time Trials in Chapter 5 (not 6). They do explicitly state in 5.2.1 u/i 5.2.5 that unlimited unicycles are used for Time Trials. So the now proposed text "Only records on unlimited unicycles will be recognized; there will be no further subdivision into wheel classes" is hardly a deviation from the current rules."
They do, because we never got around to adding them. There is no standard record for road racing in section 5.2 either, yet we are keeping standard records.
Comment
"They do, because we never got around to adding them. There is no standard record for road racing in section 5.2 either, yet we are keeping standard records. "
*Edit* Sorry I meant for the Marathon race in section 4.2.
Comment
> Only the discussion was approved. It was on the understanding that we had to wait until time-trial was an official IUF rulebook competition so the two would link up.
That's right, and as you correctly pointed out, that's a different discussion and not the one we're having here. This one here is about finalizing the structure.
Once the new rulebook is official, we can create a proposal from the other discussion to eliminate any differences with the rulebook. Until then, we should limit ourselves here to finalizing the structure.
Comment
If there are no further comments on this proposal, I would put it to the vote.
Comment
In my opinion we should vote first on the proposal about the implementation of a standard category for time trial records.
Comment
Is there any good reason why we should wait for the rulebook to be finalized in order to add a standard category for time trial records to the old structure and then adjust the structure?
The adjustment of the structure (this proposal) is separate from the content change regarding the categories anyway. In my opinion, it therefore makes more sense to adjust the structure now and then simply make a content change to the relevant paragraph if the new Rulebook is ready.